Akara
Forum Games User 
Player Merchant
[TI7]IGN: Akara Of The Past
Posts: 974 
|
Post by Akara on Feb 8, 2018 2:30:21 GMT -8
Hi, following an older conversation we had regarding seller rights, I recently read a disclaimer from guildwarslegacy that I find to be fair and I propose it should be considered by our forum too. In our previous discussion (which is now deleted I guess? – can’t find it) the forum policy was that b/o should be honoured in all cases and changing your mind about a sale was not really an option. I still disagree with this for various reasons, but shortly my opinion is this: Forum posts are not legal contracts and mods/admins are not police officers to enforce some obscure legislation about trading within a PC game (note that I am not talking about the overall functioning of the forum – which DOES need policing – but I limit this to the trading section). These trading ‘rules’ can anyway be circumvented or ignored whatsoever (by adding a childish “I reserve the right to not sell my items” disclaimer on sale threads or by saying something like “Oh yes you took b/o but I can’t find the item, I must have marched it” etc). In my opinion trading should be free of strict guidelines (including the use of r/b etc that we have also previously discussed), especially in a highly fluctuating market like the presearing one. A mini might be worth 200BD one day (e.g. due to an outdated price check) and 1000BD a few days later, you can’t expect the seller to be bound to a bad PC of her items… Here is the disclaimer from legacy: guildwarslegacy.com/forum/thread/936-seller-s-rights/Let me know what you think  Cheers, A |
|
|
|
Post by Lord on Feb 8, 2018 7:07:57 GMT -8
Hey Akara, i appreciate you linking that disclaimer, i think adding something similar to our own forum is a good idea. the reason you can't find anything regarding us policing B/O's is because it was never created, in my eyes users on our forum have always been free to keep or sell what they post at their own discretion, personally i also am a fan of "free the R/B" but it was grossly down-voted by our members, so we'll let that one lie dead for a while longer.
Let's allow some other posters to share their opinions, and then we can word something nice for the rules section.
|
|
trader
Forum Games User
Posts: 72
IGN #1: Dowodczyni Askalonu
|
Post by trader on Feb 8, 2018 7:29:51 GMT -8
off-topic but I've thought this thread would be about me.
|
|
|
|
Post by ishalldefend on Feb 9, 2018 12:13:31 GMT -8
From what I've seen, people do what they want in terms of trading. I haven't really noticed any problems or arguments resulting from that practice. The disclaimer on Legacy seems reasonable and logical.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:30:00 GMT -8
I saw this thread, and I think that I can shed some light on the previous “conversation”.
That "conversation" Akara was referring to was actually between himself and another member in one of his Auction threads.
He had, in auction, an item which the other member strongly desired, but Akara had gotten a much better offer in game.
It was actually that member's opinion, and not that of the staff, that Akara should honor the B/O and not change his mind.
Although some members did agree with him to a certain extent, it was only to a certain extent.
In the end, the situation was resolved peacefully backing Akara's point of view.
As an old sale thread, it may very well have been deleted if it was over 6 months old.
Most members of this forum do understand that the value of any given item is different for everyone.
Some will see an item as merch food, while others see that “ one man's trash is another man's treasure"!
One individual may pay 100 BDs for an item that everyone else will only go as high as 25BDs on.
It is the purchaser’s right to pay very well if he sees fit, and it also then becomes the sellers good fortune.
As for Akara's suggestion about having a disclaimer similar to the one on Legacy, I agree.
This is not so much necessary for veteran players, as I think rather for new players that do not know,
and might otherwise get confused about actual Trade Rights.
I think that such a disclaimer should be put up at the top of our Market Area though.
Since it is a Statement of Rights, rather than a Rule, I do not think that it belongs in with the Rules.
I think that it will get lost there and only congest that area more.
I also think that to avoid plagiarizing Legacy and the possible legal repercussions from that,
That the simple disclaimer needs to be rewritten and with terms that suit this community.
The disclaimer should also Protect the Forum and it’s rules in the process, just as Legacy's does for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 7:13:32 GMT -8
Trade & Service Rights
This request started here, soooo....
This is the place to reword it if anything is missing.
It's a Disclaimer, and therefore a locked area.
Check it over and see if it will do,
let me know if it wont.
Thank you!
Special Attn: Akara , Lord & ishalldefend
(Since you all posted here!)
|
|
|
|
Post by ishalldefend on Mar 14, 2018 14:32:03 GMT -8
About the last line: I would argue that it could be helpful to resolve ingame trade disputes on the forums, as long as they don't get too heated. I haven't seen any past problems related to such a thing, anyway. It's a small community, and the forums are a big part of that community.
If the last line must be included, I would add something to it about scamming not being tolerated, just to make it clear that it's a separate issue. Actually, since we have a blacklist and blacklist discussion thread, wouldn't that technically be bringing the disputes to the forum? Either way, it might need to be reworded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 7:05:39 GMT -8
About the last line: I would argue that it could be helpful to resolve ingame trade disputes on the forums, as long as they don't get too heated. I haven't seen any past problems related to such a thing, anyway. It's a small community, and the forums are a big part of that community.
Here's the last line for a refresher:
"Note: These transactions occur in game and any disputes, regarding these transactions, belong there."
We did have 1 dispute, which is what eventually resulted in the creation of this very thread.
The only piece left of that dispute, as a reminder, is presearing.boards.net/admin/security/reported_post/7516
This report was in regards to thread "Axes ★NEW: 6-19 14^50★" where one party was reported for simply placing a bid.
Hard feelings were created on this forum, which arose out of in game decisions, a lot of which the report explains.
When someone posts a thread on this forum they are only calling attention ( of this community yes), to their merchandise.
That in itself does not make the post a contract any more than any classified ads in the papers.
Also, like any classified ads in the newspapers, 1000 people can read the ad but only 1 will end up with the merchandise...maybe.
Allowing disputes to be settled on this forum, about things that are bought and sold in game, would be akin to: (example)
Newspapers allowing every potential buyer with a grudge about not getting an item, to air that grudge in their classifieds.
It's just not done and the reason is because newspaper classifieds are not courts of law, and neither are we.
It's just another tool for traders...like a telephone pole for garage sales etc.
More or less the scamming issue is dealt with in the top 2 lines listed below:
As stated in our rules, this forum’s staff maintains the right to:
A. Remove any thread posted by any member that is deemed questionable or fraudulent.
B. Remove any thread posted by any member that does not comply with our rule about
providing proof of ownership when requested.
I could add (Please read our rules on scamming!) to A. just below the main sentence. Yes/No?
*As for the Blacklist and the ensuing thread, it's just not the same...
We don't have members arguing with each other over whether or not they indeed scammed one another.
Why?
Because we don't have members that are on the Blacklist!
It takes screenshot evidence to get on the Blacklist just once,
after that some members add that single name to their FL and submit all of the account names.
We are constantly checking market threads with IG names against the Blacklist.
We have found members in the past that were on the Blacklist and sneaky enough to create an account.
With community lookouts and our own diligence double checking those names, we find them, AND BAN THEM!
Is the Blacklist there because of in game trade disputes? YES!
Are the disputes relevant? Yes!
Are the disputes posted as a screenshot to get an in game character's name on that list? Yes!
Are the disputes happening on our forum? NO!
The discussion thread is more or less for Kudos, Updates and New Scammer Names.
No disputes or disputed names. So far...so good!
Do we want to see this forum used as a venue for arguments over stuff that happened in game,
stuff that we were not involved in and have no control over?
Personally, I don't...and that's because I look at our market and I see classified ads, so the answer for me is simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by ishalldefend on Mar 15, 2018 11:10:23 GMT -8
Yeah, makes sense.
Adding something about scamming being a separate issue would be great.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 12:46:28 GMT -8
|
|
