Agent Chevy
Forum Games User
Posts: 43
IGN #1: Agent Chevy
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Post by Agent Chevy on Dec 12, 2017 9:00:46 GMT -8
Hi all,
First thing first, I love this forum, it makes coming back to pre after many many moons away that much more enjoyable in the pre-searing world and community. I couldn't ask for better guides being available, great job!!
On to my curiosity question, I apologize in advance if this is already available somewhere, what is the Min Req for max pre items? For example, min req in post for max 15-22 sword is Req 8 (post nerf). What is the equivalent for a max pre sword of 12-16?
From what I understand, the max dmg/energy/armor is more important than the req in pre, but wanted to try to put it into perspective from the best req and dmg combination. Does this differ from item to item? For example, in post, Min req4 is for a 12Ar shield, is this the same in pre?
I hope I didn't make this too confusing or annoying, not my intent. Thank you all in advance for your thoughts and input
Agent Chevy
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Akara
Forum Games User
Player Merchant
[TI7]IGN: Akara Of The Past
Posts: 976
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Post by Akara on Dec 12, 2017 10:40:07 GMT -8
That is an interesting question indeed, but it will be hard to answer because of the limited amount of data we have (max items are very rare in pre). Here are a few I have in my possession mostly for collective purposes. The last one is req 9 non-max which is also rare in pre... I will check my older selling threads to get some more data.
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Fruzen
Forum Games User
Survivor is hard. New high score Level 8
Posts: 111
IGN #1: Fruzen The Cold
IGN #2: Dyslexic Ele Necro
Guild: The Legendary Titans of Ascalon [TYTN]
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Post by Fruzen on Dec 12, 2017 19:06:42 GMT -8
I can't say I can add much information but I would probably guess around 6 would be about as low as you would see?
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Akara
Forum Games User
Player Merchant
[TI7]IGN: Akara Of The Past
Posts: 976
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Post by Akara on Dec 13, 2017 1:21:14 GMT -8
OK I found some more from older threads of mine: So what we have so far: Lowest req recorded for max: Wand (10-16dmg): 6 Bow (12-20dmg): 7 Sword (12-16dmg): 7 Shield (12a): 6 Offhand (9e): 6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 3:56:46 GMT -8
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Post by Mieric Andre on Dec 13, 2017 4:06:59 GMT -8
I will add this info to weapon guides
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Akara
Forum Games User
Player Merchant
[TI7]IGN: Akara Of The Past
Posts: 976
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Post by Akara on Dec 13, 2017 4:29:53 GMT -8
Those are some neat weapons iroz!
I also have a few q3 a11 shields, so it would make sense that q4 a12 is possible (following the post pattern).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 9:59:06 GMT -8
I know right...! Too bad those weapons aren't mine *sigh*
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Post by Looney on Dec 13, 2017 11:22:34 GMT -8
Imo, the drop tables are the same throughout the game, it's just very hard to get max dmg / req items in presearing. drops are rare and the sample size of documented drops we have to go by is quite small. Also the fact that the community is small vs. the amount of inactive accounts with who knows how many great items doesn't help. Foe levels are the deciding factor in drop stats and req, so since the max level foes that drop anything is level 10 the max dmg/energy/hsr/hct/req for pre is how it is. Personally, it is my belief that Red's chart holds true in pre too (or luny's since she started it on guru before red took over). GW Stat Ranges on legacy
If a lvl 17-22 foe can drop a q8 max sword why couldn't a lvl 10 foe drop a q4 12-16 sword? Just because it isn't documented (yet, here) doesn't mean there isn't one (or more) on inactive accounts or it isn't possible to drop. We are a relativly small community and don't yet have enough data to determine anything with certainty. It wasn't long ago hsr 15% was thought to be max on a staff. edit for clarity: I'm not saying the max dmg for pre is higher than we think (or it could be slightly on some things, who knows for sure), just drops above a certain req are guaranteed to be non-max for their req since lvl 10 foes have a max dmg they can drop.
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Post by ishalldefend on Dec 14, 2017 15:06:17 GMT -8
Well, this somewhat reinforces the idea that 12-20 is the maximum damage for a bow in pre, as it's a Q9:
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Post by Looney on Dec 14, 2017 15:17:27 GMT -8
Yeah, it is within the range for q9 on the chart. I really believe we can get all the max stats per req it states up to a maximum dmg dictated by the dmg range lvl 10s can drop. Unfortunately, maximum damage per foe lvl has never been documented afaik. I understand why since it would take killing 1000s of foes and documenting drop results for each level
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Post by ishalldefend on Dec 14, 2017 15:30:41 GMT -8
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Post by redfireball on Jan 11, 2018 15:06:36 GMT -8
Just remembered, I promised to post here. Drop tables are absolutely identical. Problem: each level has a distribution of the unidentified item values they drop. It's not same chance for all gold values however. It's a curve peaking slightly above the minimum unid value and decreasing slowly towards the top part. The most extreme case happens at level22 mobs since for higher lvl mobs there is an earlier cutoff (I bet you know, that any drop from lvl 24+ never exceeds 57g unid value). To make it clear: lvl22 for example drops items in the ranges of 40-60g whereas most frequent value is around 43g and so far with 2000 (roughly) logged drops I had 1 item at 60g and 3 items at 59g. So - getting back to the problem of max items in pre: the max dmg items do only drop from charr bosses, since those are highest level and thus have the highest unid value items in their drop range and thus the highest possible stats on said items. Now consider that this highest unid value in their range is the rarest occuring combined that at said unid value there is still no guarantee for a high damage - in fact such item can still be 3 to 4 points off. And then you ask for the minimum req... that will crack the egg. This is like running lvl 20 chests for max q8 items - except that there the most frequent gold value can generate the item in question whereas with charr it's the rarest. Oh - and every chest generates a gold/prpl item, my experience yields far worse for charr bosses and purple items So to answer the question we can just farm foes in post at around level 14, which have the highest chance of dropping the highest-unid-value-of-level-10-value items and see what items those are. And it yields the items 15-25hammer 12-20bow 7-19 axe 12-16sword 10-16staff 10-16wand 12shield 9focus 10-16wand (did I miss any?) At the minimum req4. Now for proves in pre: I have seen such sword and shield and I am confident my conclusions are correct. Yet I doubt it has happened on all weapons (especially hammer and axe I doubt one exists yet) But I don't want to shatter dreams - keep farming just keep in mind it's probably more likely to win the lottery jackpot than to drop a max q4 item! And tbh who cares for lowreq except for maybe a monk with a shield? Okay collectors... :> Cheers Unfortunately, maximum damage per foe lvl has never been documented afaik. I understand why since it would take killing 1000s of foes and documenting drop results for each level Welcome to my gw life... excel accepts quite huge tables...
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Post by ishalldefend on Jan 12, 2018 15:18:37 GMT -8
Just remembered, I promised to post here. Drop tables are absolutely identical. Problem: each level has a distribution of the unidentified item values they drop. It's not same chance for all gold values however. It's a curve peaking slightly above the minimum unid value and decreasing slowly towards the top part. The most extreme case happens at level22 mobs since for higher lvl mobs there is an earlier cutoff (I bet you know, that any drop from lvl 24+ never exceeds 57g unid value). To make it clear: lvl22 for example drops items in the ranges of 40-60g whereas most frequent value is around 43g and so far with 2000 (roughly) logged drops I had 1 item at 60g and 3 items at 59g. So - getting back to the problem of max items in pre: the max dmg items do only drop from charr bosses, since those are highest level and thus have the highest unid value items in their drop range and thus the highest possible stats on said items. Now consider that this highest unid value in their range is the rarest occuring combined that at said unid value there is still no guarantee for a high damage - in fact such item can still be 3 to 4 points off. And then you ask for the minimum req... that will crack the egg. This is like running lvl 20 chests for max q8 items - except that there the most frequent gold value can generate the item in question whereas with charr it's the rarest. Oh - and every chest generates a gold/prpl item, my experience yields far worse for charr bosses and purple items So to answer the question we can just farm foes in post at around level 14, which have the highest chance of dropping the highest-unid-value-of-level-10-value items and see what items those are. And it yields the items 15-25hammer 12-20bow 7-19 axe 12-16sword 10-16staff 10-16wand 12shield 9focus 10-16wand (did I miss any?) At the minimum req4. Now for proves in pre: I have seen such sword and shield and I am confident my conclusions are correct. Yet I doubt it has happened on all weapons (especially hammer and axe I doubt one exists yet) But I don't want to shatter dreams - keep farming just keep in mind it's probably more likely to win the lottery jackpot than to drop a max q4 item! And tbh who cares for lowreq except for maybe a monk with a shield? Okay collectors... :> Cheers Unfortunately, maximum damage per foe lvl has never been documented afaik. I understand why since it would take killing 1000s of foes and documenting drop results for each level Welcome to my gw life... excel accepts quite huge tables... Very interesting post! Have you done any research on the maximum/minimum merchant gold value of identified items? I'm currently doing that for items in pre, as can be seen in my thread here. I'll start doing a bit of research on the values of unid items, as well. Let me know if you have any requests for specific items to find the value of. I did see your reply on the Legacy forum - if I come across another 2-5 dmg axe, I'll find the unid value. EDIT: Just checked the values of some of the unid purple items I have in pre. They range from 7-12 gold in value. One of the 12g valued items is a Q8, and the other is Q5. the 7g value items are Q2 and Q3. EDITx2: I'll see if I can do a comparison between the unid values of purples that drop from regular charr versus those that drop from the bosses, if you'd like.
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Post by redfireball on Jan 12, 2018 23:19:46 GMT -8
Very interesting post! Have you done any research on the maximum/minimum merchant gold value of identified items? I'm currently doing that for items in pre, as can be seen in my thread here. I'll start doing a bit of research on the values of unid items, as well. Let me know if you have any requests for specific items to find the value of. I did see your reply on the Legacy forum - if I come across another 2-5 dmg axe, I'll find the unid value. EDIT: Just checked the values of some of the unid purple items I have in pre. They range from 7-12 gold in value. One of the 12g valued items is a Q8, and the other is Q5. the 7g value items are Q2 and Q3. EDITx2: I'll see if I can do a comparison between the unid values of purples that drop from regular charr versus those that drop from the bosses, if you'd like. Kewl. I can tell you how the values of identified items are generated and thus make a list of the min max values for your categories - you are close or on spot on many already Hope to be able to post later today - nice work! For the unid values of purples - sure! Do a comparison, that's cool - I already did it and can tell the ranges. But always great to have someone confirm
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